I had to laugh at the varying estimates of the number folks who attended the gUO (geist Untied Operation sic) "love in" at HSEHS on 2/21/06. By my quick count, subtracting the Hamilton county officials and their entourages, the press and the (come to find out) MARION county residents and the morbidly curious (like me) in attendance; allowing for the couples present I would estimate only about 100 households were represented.
It is absolutely irresponsible for this vocal minority to begin whipping people into an emotional frenzy over this thing before conducting a census or at minimum a scientific poll of the affected residents to determine if a 65% majority even exists. 100% of the residents of the area that I am acquainted with support it. If the HOAs of geist REALLY had the best interests of their residents at heart they would have each pooled a couple hundred dollars and commissioned this poll.
Has anyone asked the question, "What happens if 3 out of 4 of the annexation areas fail to obtain the 65%?" Why of course all of the money will be returned to the original donors and the 4th area will fall in with the majority...right? Doubtful...So much for being "united". And why didn't anyone at the meeting question the statement by the self-appointed "historian(comedian)" concerning the "talks" that had gone on before the involuntary annexation was announced. Is there a possibility that Fishers was offering abatements or reduced sewer hookups as incentives? We may never know...
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8 comments:
Say, JQFR-
I have to say, I'm a bit stumped by your extending the blog here. Don't get me wrong- I appreciate the linkage, and certainly since the bulk of the new posts are culled from comments left on the Kole Hard Facts blog. The more, the merrier, on those counts.
I get that you're a Fishers resident, and see the annexation as a softening of your own taxes. I see that to a point, with the other sides being that Fishers could spend less and the tax rate could go down, and besides, is it really necessary to gig others to make it easier for oursleves? I argue 'no'.
But it really seems that you have a bigger ax to grind with the Geist folks, describing them as 'spoiled children', belittling their efforts, and predicting their failure. To what end? Wouldn't it be more productive, and better prove your case, if you were tirelessly pushing the upsides of Fishers annexation?
This has been the greatest failure of the annexation effort to date- to show the benefits.
I really believe that if the Town Councilors undertook an effort to reach out to the Geist folks, they might have had some measure of receptiveness on the overture- maybe not enough to overcome the remonstrance, but at least there would have been a better feeling about it. Again, alas. Remind me never to hire any Fishers Town Councilor to do PR for me.
By the way, 5% turnout for a town hall meeting is enormous. For most civic meetings, you're doing great if you get more than 10 people to show up. I've been to my share to know. Many municipal officials have commented to me, as I was the only person to rise and give comment on an issue, that they wished there was greater involvement. Turnout was less than this for the Home Place annexations, which were defeated by remonstrance.
Cool, someone to talk to. I was getting a little lonely over here. I know people are stopping by since the "profile views" number keeps going up.
Please remember that I support the annexation of ALL unincorporated areas. The geist area just happens to be one that is low-hanging fruit. Plus it makes sense since it is in the extreme SE limit of the town borders. I applaud the council for getting off their collective butts and just getting the ball rolling. I would say that you might be surprised how many properties you drive by every day that are not part of the town but considering where you work you probably wouldn't be surprised. It has to be extremely inefficient to try and run an operation when you constantly have to be sensitive as to which areas are "in the town" and to administrate two sets of rules. Fishers police made about 1200 runs into the geist area last year (maybe it was 2004), when someones kid is lost or a crime is in progress do you think that it is efficient or in the the best interest of public safety for the closest officer (from Fishers) to ignore a life and death call because of a jurisdiction issue - of course not. Personally I'd rather see the HCSD busting down the doors on meth labs up in the more rural areas of the county, assisting the more resource challenged police depts out there. No one is faulting the sheriff here but even he came close to admitting at the 2/21 meeting that taking care of geist was his responsibility but that Fishers PD could do just as good a job (and more cost effectively imo).
I don't see this as a gigging. The folks in geist should have seen this coming a long time ago.
Sometimes I'll draft something, let it sit for a bit and come back later to see if I really meant what I said. I've actually backed off in some cases bion. Soooo, I'll answer as to my ax-grinding. As I've said before, I attempted to start an honest debate with the atgeist.joke regulars but was basically told I was the joke. My comments were censored and no one really wanted to hear what I had to say. So I took the game to another field. I began to look at the possible motives of some of these folks to scream like "spoiled children" when their little status quo was threatened.
OK you will occasionally see me outside my house with tin foil on my head muttering something about black helicopters, BUT it is obvious that some are feeling threatened by this on a different level than the money part. The town "conservatively" estimates that the town component of the taxes will increase 14% (NOT that ones entire tax bill will increase by that much) but the gUO - geist Untied Operation people are screaming out against a 22% tax increase!. They're putting it on signs, posting it on web sites, stomping their feet and screaming it in public meetings-and it's simply not true. They say that it's "paying for something they already own" and asking "what do we get?" when any sane individual knows that our property tax system is based on ones ability to pay, not value for services rendered. These are emotional arguments, not logical ones. Why would the leaders resort to emotional, logically and legally empty arguments? Why would they feel a need to point fingers at what others do and question their integrity (Scott Faultless) as a distraction?...they must have something more to lose.
I have to question your motives too Mike. You of all people I thought would have agreed that the HOAs should be giving the residents the full story about what they could possibly save if they were to just simply take advantage of what Fishers is offering. I'm not seeing any effort by anyone to offer up what a potential HOA dues reduction estimate would be if a neighborhood were to drop private security, private snow removal, private road maintenance, township fire service, deed their community parks to the town and hook up to municipal sewers. Obviously not every neighborhood will be prepared to do every one of those things but residents are only being given emotional drivel to feed on. These leaders are too deeply entrenched to be objective about it. So I have become the self-appointed belittler. I guess I don't blame you for not calling them on it. Are you cashing their checks? Setting up your Fishers town council campaign for 2007? Personally I think it would be refreshing to have some new blood on the council. I'm not going to be intimidated by the affluence of the geist folks, or their impudence. I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for them since their arguments aren't based on their inability to pay, just their unwillingness to. Someone has to try and knock them off their high horse, for the good of the order.
I'll grant you that 5% is a pretty decent turnout (I was quite surprised to see as many) but the $10k they collected is a far cry from $125k and it would be a shame to see the HOAs mortgaging their own residents for the difference. Yes I think it's a possibility that the HOA boards will try and finance the difference to save their power base. I just hope the residents are watching. Isn't that a tactic that Boortz says our government uses? Frighten the people into thinking that they need the government (HOA) to protect them thus making them dependent on the government (HOA) thus guaranteeing the continued existence and expansion of the government (HOA). Think about it.
My motives are political, as I've always stated. There are two core issues here: higher taxes, and the right to self-determination.
The people of Geist are huge GOP supporters- or have been. They believe in lower taxes and smaller government. I make it my business to take the side of people about to get the taxing thumbscrews put to them. I show them that the GOP talks the talk, but fails to walk the walk, and offer them a political party that means business on smaller government- the Libertarian Party.
Every American should be a supporter of the right to self-determination. It's essential to our national character, as we started with a Declaration of Independence. The people within a given jurisdiction should be the only ones deciding their status, not the people outside it. When nations do this, it's called 'an act of war'.
On both of these counts, the Town Councilors have failed. It is appropriate to assign this blame directly to them.
BTW- 3am? Well, blogging beats late night TV!
Do you drink cool aid?
100? There were more than that, by about 262. Entourage? I saw 4 sherrif's deputies with the sheriff, but no one else seemed to have an entourage. I saw 7 press people that I could tell, and let's just say for the sake of argument there were 20-40 poeple there that do not live in the affected area. (why? I wouldn't know, but I'll concced that point just to not quibble). There were 362 people there. I counted. Twice. While it does not equal a large percentage of the 2000 plus homes, it does represent the most active poeple in this fight. As for th rest of the residents, whenever presented with the facts, they agree with our position.
Sounds as if this business owner in the geist area is afraid to take a true stand, and wouldn't know a fact if it hit him in the face. His request abouyt retaliation against those that advertise in AtGeist? Why would we hurt our neighbors? Most of the Geist businesses are there to support us when we ask. And some of them are our friends we speak to. I beleive that would be a lost cause, with little or no support, Too bad we can't ask to boycott the author, since he is afraid to stand up to what he believes in, and state his true name.
The amount we have raised is available, and it represents way more than the number of folks in attendence the other night. We will reach the goal before May.
Tell you what when we win this thing, why doesn't this resident call Fishers and ask what his increase would be, and he can pay it voluntarily. He'll get the same service he was getting before, and he'll feel better about himself.
An one more thing, who in Geist does not have sewer? Just a handful? They can tie in anythime they want to, and any time you tie in, it costs you money, no matter if you pay taxes to the entity or not. I've been there.
I'm sorry, I meant 100 households. You see, unlike an actual election where each individual gets one vote, only your property gets one vote. So it doesn't matter how many people are there only how many properties are represented. I guess I'm not the only one here who can be "fact-smacked".
As to the residents "whenever presented with the facts, they agree with our position", I'd be agreeing too when threatened with reprisals from HOA board members (think of every little rule they could enforce on you) and "researching" by a department of county government. The Wehrmacht is alive and well in geist.
How about this, after the remonstrance fails I will put in a specific request for YOUR extra tax money and ask that it be spent specifically in my neighborhood...Deal or No Deal?
Wehrmacht? That's some strong language, and not really playing nice.
But OK, let's play your game. If one wants to relate 1930's Germany and annexations, the Sudetenland is one place to look. Czechoslovakia is another. Does that make Scott Faultless Hitler, or Gary Huff?
Actually I'm relating 1930's Germany to the propaganda and misinformation fomented by the gUO on the citizens it supposes to want to protect. Talk about going off half-cocked. They refuse to publish the results of even one straw poll as to the will of the property owners.
Oh, yeah, right...sure...Scott Faultless is riding a Panzer tank across the causeway to crush the petty gUO resistance...not even close. At least he tells it the way it is while the gUO smears and misinforms...reminds me of some democrats I know.
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